Stay Puft's rebuttal: Problem is housing, not illegals

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Pro-illegal commenter Stay Puft replies to Amy as follows (click on the link below):


It sounds like there's a problem in your community with a lack of low income housing and with landlords who are willing to ignore zoning laws. Why are you angry with the tenants? That's the definition of scapegoating. You say you have to fight against "zoning issues." How is deporting immigrants the solution? Or are the landlords illegal immigrants as well?

I'm assuming that those 20 people living in that house are doing some sort of work in the area, yet that is still the best housing they can afford. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt that those 20 people are in the country illegally (although I doubt you really know that for sure), if they were removed, and all-american citizens were hired to replace them, they would also need to have affordable housing. Again, this seems to be your community's real problem, along with a willingness of landlords to capitalize on the situation.

Also, your claim that illegal immigration drives down wages is interesting. I've heard other people say similar things. Are there any studies supporting this claim? Because the information I've seen shows that there is no negative impact on wages. For example, this (rather lengthy) report by an economist at UC Davis.

Why are you afraid? "Local Youths" doesn't mean illegal aliens.

Why do you think your pet could be in danger? Has Joe been telling you about the animal sacrifices preformed by the Cult of Aztlan?


Amy actually lives this stuff, as her letter clearly indicates, so she may or may not have an interest in continuing the debate over whether she has accurately described the problems she lives with daily.

Therefore, I'll just say: Of course the landlords and lack of housing are a huge part of the problem. But the presence of large numbers of illegal workers around her house are certainly also a very immediate part of the problem. Low-cost housing in this area is a tough nut to crack. The landlords and illegal tenants are the ones with the most direct impact and also the most likely for a normal citizen to be able to do something about.

Regarding whether she should be afraid of the local youths or whether they are illegal or gang members: As a woman she's probably not looking for you or I to validate her concerns, now is she?

See Part four for information on the effect illegal aliens have on wages.

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zimzo said:

When I read Amy's post I wasn't sure what it had to do with illegal immigration. I really don't know how she knows that the people she is talking about are illegal immigrants. Does she have some sort of inside information about their immigrant status? Even if they are illegal, this is a perfect case of missing the real cause of a problem and instead scapegoating someone else who is a victim. We are in the middle of a huge real estate boom that may in fact be a bubble. This is a problem in the entire country, not just Northern Virginia. There is a shortage of affordable housing and prices continue to sky-rocket out of reach of many middle- and low-income people. Because of ever-increasing disaprities in income and easy credit, prices for real estate are being pushed upward and nothing is being done to make it possible for those who can't get credit or whose incomes are too low to find affordable housing. Some of these people are immigrants, some are illegal immigrants but many of the people affected are American citizens. Instead of taking care of the real problem, this issue is a distraction--and a dangerous one. If more is not done to take care of this problem, which is affecting the entire country, then we are going to have a lot more to worry about than illegal immigration.

stay puft marshmallow man said:

I'm not sure if this is here or there, but I 'actually live' in a community with undocumented workers sharing rent in small houses. It sounds like the difference is that Amy 'actually lives' in a state of irrational fear of those immigrant workers. Through the various discussions on this blog, I'm coming to realize that this is considered to be a virtue among conservatives. Regarding the Aztlan thing, you yourself said something to the effect that you'd rather, "err on the side of mistrust"

While Amy has every right to have such concerns, she should realize that it's difficult to take her arguments based on these concerns seriously. but I doubt Amy cares that the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man doesn't take her arguments seriously, especially considering her worldview is at stake.

I have no doubt that Amy's community has REAL issues with housing prices. In the great state of Michigan, it's the responsibility of the landlord, not the tenants, to abide by zoning laws. Maybe it's different in Virginia.

The growing number of people at the formal and informal day labor pick up sites - which all goverment authorities and all news coverage, as well as the organizations which SPONSOR the formal site, acknowledge as being almost entirely illegal workers - paralleled the increase in the residential areas (I do think Amy's letter stated this, right?) That's strong evidence supporting her point even if no census has been taken.

And it isn't "irrational" or about protecting a "worldview" from the description she sent. At least no the way I read it. It sounds like having highly overcrowded houses on your street and strangers on your property are things a reasonable person, of whatever ideological bent, can justifiable object to.

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