An Offer To My Friend Zimzo

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This thread is getting too involved so it's time to bring it up to the front page. Our esteemed commenter Zimzo has managed to pin just about everything wrong with the world on my efforts to advocate against illegal immigration; although he has not yet blamed me for Iraq, although I think that is coming. World hunger, teen pregnancy, and steroids might show up on my debit sheet as well.

I extend an olive branch:

Zim, you're a freak, but I love ya. Wherever the hell that WND story fits in to the "discussion" we are having - and lord knows I sure didn't bring it in - I am truly flattered you see fit to grab outrages from all around the globe and hang them onto my tottering frame.

Psst! 4 Klansmen are setting up a roadblock outside Beckley, WV: There's got to be a Budzinski angle to that - go get'em, boy!

I don't know whether it's your tendency to grab half-quotes from what I've written, or lump me in with people who share my page in the telephone book, or simply make shit up out of thin air and then demand I rebut it, but there is something in your spirit I admire.

With a few men like you, I could bring down the whole corrupt apparatus of modern business and politics. I'd push out the press releases, and you could keep their spokespeople tied up in knots. You'd be my Rove, son, you'd be my Carville, you'd be my friggin' Che Guevara.

Meet me on the porch for a Captain and Coke sometime, if you have it in you. We might actually be able to get something done in this world.

I await your thoughtful reply.

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14 Comments

charles said:

Hey, Joe, can I blame you for Webb nearly going postal on the President simply because Bush thought to ask Webb how his son was doing?

It's too bad we couldn't get a single reporter to actually ask Webb anything that might make him mad while there was a camera around during the campaign, we may well have elected someone who will end up in a floor fight that involves an actual FIGHT.

Question -- if Webb actually tried to take Bush, who would win? Webb was looking a little pudgy, but he was a soldier -- on the other hand, Bush is probably the most fit President we've had.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

Bush wound win hands down, and he'd probably get a nice bump in the polls for it, too. esp. if he pulled out a pile driver for the KO.

I say, give the people what they want!

Joe:

Don't you agree that anti-immigrant sentiment is driven, at least in part, by a fear that the "American way of life" (or whatever) is threatened by immigration?

It's pretty common for people to argue something like, "they take our jobs, they're breaking the law, they use government services... AND they don't adopt 'our' way of life."

it's that rider, which is so often attached to anti-immigrant positions, that speaks to a struggle, or perceived struggle, over who gets to define what it means to be "American,"

and it's this sort of view of immigrant as cultural contaminant which leads some to conclude that many who take a hard line on immigration are motivated by a sort of thinly veiled xenophobia.

I'm not calling anyone a racist, just trying to understand the intricacies of this situation.

...but speaking of racism, everyone should check this out:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

...more specifically, follow this link:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

for harvard's race-association study

Jack said:

Puffy:

When immigrants come here legally, those who intend to stay and become citizens are required to learn our history, language, and culture. Illegal immigrants, in general, do not concern themselves as much with such matters. That is a threat to our way of life.

Do you really want the U.S. to be like Mexico, or any other Latin American country?

kevin said:

Stay, I don't have the time to find it now but I think the sentiment has been expressed by Joe explicitly as such. Correct me if I'm wrong Joe, but I think the word used was "values" and insinuated that immigrants (might have only been the illegal ones) would destroy the values this country was founded on. It was around one of the "making English the official language" posts.

Anyways, maybe Jack can tell you about why you might not like to live in Brazil, Chile, or any other Latin American country.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

I was just starting to miss you, Jack.

Listen to yourself. "Do you really want the U.S. to be like Mexico, or any other Latin American country?"

Do you want America to be like _______

fill in the blank. Ireland, Germany, Poland, China, Ohio. What kind of an argument is that?

It implies that Mexico is poor because of the people and their culture. (talk about revisionism!)

You know, I don't get this idea that Mexicans are so different. They've got the christian thing going (more so than we do, probably), they play baseball, they eat cheese. I don't think it'd be such a problem if the US became a little more like Mexico.

but seriously, learn our culture? pah! What? Someone's a cultural threat until they've been told, "In America we eat hot dogs, not empinadas, in America we play baseball, George Washington was the first president, Abe was honest, in America, Mexicans mow our lawns." and suddenly they no longer pose a threat to our communities? Our culture is the quest for a better life. The moment an immigrant sets off for America, they ARE Americans as far as I'm concerned.

Jack said:

Puffy:

Indeed, I do not want the U.S. to become like any of those European nations, either, with the possible exception of Ireland.

If Mexico is not poor because of its people and culture, then what is the reason? It cannot be lack of natural resources, becuase they have plenty of that.

If you think American culture is best expressed by hot dogs and baseball, the you do not know heart the American culture, either. I suppose that's why you are a Democrat, and why Democrats do not think our culture is worth preserving.

zimzo said:

Aww, you the freak, Joe, you the freak!

Here, you set up this nice post all dedicated to me, and I must say I'm touched.

Everything I wrote made perfect sense. I think Puffy gets my drift. The World Net Daily article was just an example (from your favorite source no less) of how this debate on illegal immgration seems to generate a lot of heat and not much light.

Jack, if I may have permission to speak freely, if you represent the sum total of American culture I definitely want to be Mexican. Thing is, I think American culture is pretty diverse and that's what I like about it. I think the notion that there is one culture for immigrants to learn is pretty specious.

And if there's one country I don't want America to be like, it's Ireland. I hear the whole island is overrun with snakes.

Jack said:

I, too, want you to be Mexican, Zimzo. I'll even buy you a one-way ticket if you promise not to come back.

zimzo said:

Don't be a hatah, Jack. Especially in a post dedicated to me.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:


Jack,

There you go, claiming the right to define what being an American is all about for yourself (and anyone else who 'gets it', I suppose), like you own the rights.

Why like this? Give immigrants some room to breath. They will be changed by America and America will be changed by them. This has been going on since before time. Your reaction isn't going to stop it, neither will deporting zimzo.

I know you have a fairly narrowly defined idea of what is acceptable. I imagine that if we applied that same criteria to what it means to be American, America's population would shrink drastically.

on the other hand, I do like Ireland. So that's one thing we've got.

26+6=1!

(No snakes, zimzo. Not since St. Pat!)

now, before this whole thing turns into a Jack love-fest, I'd like to point out that we may be getting off track.

I'm on the Mexican radio, incidentally.

My biggest problem is the soccer: Do away with that and I think, as peoples, we can talk.

I want the food, I want SOME of the restaurants, I'm intrigued by the fashion, but I'm appalled by the cars. JC Whitney is selling this country down the river of taste.

My personal view is if you are here to become an American, I'll go pretty far for you. If you're not, then it's just business, my friend.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

fair enough, Joe. but do you think all the anti-immigrant talk flying around makes it more or less difficult for them to integrate?

+ there's still the long-standing tradition of agriculture using Mexicans as temp. labor (legally or otherwise), and that's effectively become a part of both nations' culture

also, did you know that the origins of football date back to some soccer player in england getting tired of kicking the ball and picking it up and running with it. that's pretty awesome!

Joe Dude said:

No, you're right about agricultural jobs. They are outside the debate over employment. That's a smaller portion of the equation, and many of those workers are unabashedly migrants without any intention of becoming citizens.

The whole point is what we are doing to make it easier for migrants to become citizens, and whether we should be doing so. Because the immigrants themselves are in a gray area on this question, citizens of the US should have a say in the matter.

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