Ken Stolle on Immigration Enforcement

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Some may be gratified that Virginia's 8th District Senator, Ken Stolle, is endorsing a year-long "study" on illegal immigration and crime in our state.

Many others, especially those in his home district of Virginia Beach, might reasonably say, too little too late, senator.

Where was the senator a month ago on this issue? Merely killing a boatload of legislation meant to address this very problem.

Here is a report from the 2007 session of Virginia's General Assembly:

"We feel there are so many of these bills and they are so outrageous because they are designed to hurt people," said Nancy Lyall, legal coordinator for Mexicans Without Borders, one of a dozen groups sponsoring the protests.

The protesters may find a sympathetic response from the Senate Courts of Justice Committee.

Late Wednesday, the committee voted to table a key piece of legislation being championed by conservatives, including Attorney General Robert F. McConnell (R), to require state and local police to work with federal authorities in tracking down and detaining illegal immigrants.

Sen. Kenneth W. Stolle (R-Virginia Beach), the chairman, said the committee decided not to act because several police departments opposed the measure. Col. David M. Rohrer, Fairfax County police chief, testified that he worries that Latinos would be afraid to report crimes or cooperate with police if the bill was approved, Stolle said.

"Law enforcement officers are not equipped to do civil immigration law," Stolle said.

No study has ever shown that immigration enforcement activities by local officers depress the reporting of crime in immigrant communities, whereas we don't even need studies to show that the failure of local and state authorities to remove illegal aliens from the community has resulted in tragedy after tragedy.

Item One: Film director Bob Clarke and his son, this week.

Item Two: Virginia Beach teenagers Tessa Tranchant and Allison Kunhardt, last week.

Item Three: Herndon resident and father of two, Joseph Passarelli, last November. (Here is his killer's rap sheet).

(And the above only encompass the drunk-driver-illegal-alien segment of the crime problem. The segment comprised by the illegal alien MS-13 and 18th Street Gang members in this town is a story for another day).

While, certainly, anyone with a heart must celebrate the "sympathetic response" the pro-illegal alien lobby received from Virginia's Senate Courts of Justice Committee this year, maybe we can reserve a token sprinkle of sympathy for the legal residents who are being victimized.

With regard to Ken Stolle and the "Stolle" wing of the Virginia GOP: Does anybody in this state's Republican Party happen to have their brain turned on?

UPDATE: I just heard from someone in the Virginia Beach area who related that Stolle is considered wrong on a decent sized list of issues but is also completely bulletproof, that neither the Republicans nor Democrats will challenge him as long as he wants to keep the seat.

That's too bad. It's almost enough to make one cynical about politics.

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One of the bills that Stolle killed was Del. Rust's that overwhelmingly passed the House 96-2 and was one that AG Bob was supposedly pushing. But sadly we Dems don't have a candidate to run against him.

That is sad. Where's the opposition party?

Had Enough said:

There have been more in Virginia. One that stands out in my mind was a accident on 28 sometime back where a drunk illegal alien who worked construction, had just bought a new truck and house rear-ended a car stopped at a stop light and killed the two people in the stopped car.

The Old Town Observer said:

Sen. Stolle and/or any other legislator(s) could help put a stop to drunk illegal aliens on the highways of the Commonwealth with the following legislation: First DWI conviction when the perp. is without a license or driving on revoked...12mo. mandatory/minimum, no time off for good behavior. Second DWI conviction w/o lic. or while revoked, Class Six Felony, two years mandatory/ minimum, no good time. Take the descretion away from the judges. Let the people speak through their elected representatives....WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

zimzo said:

How surprising to see you once again exloiting people's personal tragedies to score political points. Some people would like you to stop:

Teens' parents ask for end to argument and time to grieve

Tessa Tranchant and Allison Kuhnhardt's parents want the arguing to stop. They said this national debate over illegal immigration is out of hand and they desperately want this time to grieve.

Colette Tranchant, Tessa's mother, said, "It just saddens me that people take this to a different level."

Thursday night Bill O'Reilly debated with fellow Fox commentator, Geraldo Rivera over Alfredo Ramos. Ramos is an illegal immigrant that Virginia Beach police said killed the teens while driving drunk. He hit the girls' car at more than 60 miles per hour according to the family.

Friday, Colette and Alison's Father, David, wanted to calm the firestorm, saying they don't blame Virginia Beach for not sending Ramos to federal authorities after police arrested him for public intoxication.

"There's a media circus right now and everyone has their opinion, but the fact is our kids were killed," said Colette, "Right now we need time to grieve, we need time to figure this out and we would like laws enforced."

And if anyone wants to see the real, ugly face of the anti-immigrant movement take a look at the bug-eyed hatred spewed by Bill O'Reilly in this clip:

Great observation, as usual, Zimzo. I will call O'Reilly and Geraldo and tell them to call off the dogs. Thanks for setting us straight.

The Old Town Observer said:

Hey Zimzo,
Nobody here is anti-immigrant. My grand parents were legal immigrants who went through Ellis Island. They were vetted for contagious diease and whether they had all of their teeth. What about all of the drug resistant TB coming accross the southern border and the cases of malaria found in Northern Va. recently. We are against all illegal immigration...Period. Who is paying for the illegal alien's med. treatments...why the taxpayers of Virginia. Who is paying for the increased insurance premiums because the drunk illegals have no insurance on their vehicles...Why us legal taxpayers, again. Was it Greg L. who said "bite me"?
Well, Zimzo...BITE ME.

zimzo said:

You are the dogs, Joe.

If they were made legal they, they could get insurance for their cars Old Town. But that's not really the issue is it? it's that you think of immigrants as disease-carrying drunks, which is just what bigoted anti-immigrant zealots thought of your grabdparents. I'm sure they would be very proud of you.

Zimzo - for the benefit of our newcomers - employs this unique and incredibly effective debating method: If you disagree with him, he calls you a bigot. Shuts down our discussions here every single time.

zimzo said:

Who's shutting down discussion besides you? You think that it's OK to use the same bigoted rhetoric that has been used in the past about immigrants from the Irish in the 19th century to Jews in Nazi Germany--that they carry disease, are prone to criminality, etc.--and whenever this is pointed out you stop the discussion. You never present any evidence that illegal immigrants, for example, are guilty of more drunk driving incidents than other groups. In fact, I've never seen you rail about white drunk drivers. Old Town has no evidence that immigrants carry more infectious diseases than other groups. Yet you continue to spout this empty rhetoric and whine when you get called on it.

You never "call" anyone on anything, Zim, you just shift topics. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone make the argument here that illegal aliens are more likely to commit crimes than any other demographic - but whenever we talk about illegal aliens and crimes, you trot out the same red herring.

Brilliant logic, and I wonder if in your everyday life you actually run with people who buy into it: Deporting criminal illegal aliens - or any illegal aliens for that matter - cannot take place unless illegal aliens commit the majority percentage of crime in our society.

But yeah, I really ought to quit shutting down debate here. I'll work on that.

The Old Town Observer said:

My grand parents never taught my folks to speak their native language. My folks never allowed me to learn my grand parents language. They wanted to be AMERICANS. Wanted their children to be AMERICANS. Not some sort of hyphenated Americans....AMERICANS.How do we KNOW what the hell the illegal aliens are carrying? We should be twice as careful when we don't know something for sure. I've traveled throughout Central and South America. Those places got some pretty nasty bugs and parasites. Why was I taking all of that prophalatic medication if their wasn't something to catch? Maybe we should open our borders to every HIV infected alien who wants in because we have such a great Med. delivery system...And whose going to pay for it?Why don't the illegal aliens stay home and change their own counties? Make them nice places to live? Point grand parents played by the rules and got in legally. You should stop by the Prince William Health Center near the Court House on Thursdays. There is a line for the free clinic that wraps around the building. Most of the illegal alien women are pregnant with what they hope will be nice little American Citizens that will give them an anchor here so ICE can't boot 'em. After we get control of the border we need to do something about our ridiculous citizenship laws. Skip in and have your baby here and it is automatically a citizen. Real nice. Playing by the rules..NOT!!

Jack said:

Because the rhetoric was used against Irish, Poles, or whatever, does that make it wrong. The Irish WERE more prone to crime than others. Hispanics have a higher murder rate than any other minority except Blacks. Is it bigoted to speak the truth?

How 'bout we discuss facts, rather than saying that the speaking of certain facts is bigoted?

Ron said:

So does zomzo believe in lifting all restrictions on immigration? If not, then how should we enforce whatever laws we have?

FULL DISCLOSURE: My mother is an immigrant, as was my paternal grandmother, and all my great-grandparents on my father's side.

Jack said:

Zimzo does not answer questions. If he did, I'd like him to tell us whether he wants to allow everyone in without being checked for disease first.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

Preface: the purpose of this post is not to accuse anyone of bigotry


re: "I've ever seen anyone make the argument here that illegal aliens are more likely to commit crimes than any other demographic"

You're kidding, right? Let me refer you to the post you made only one week ago titled, "DWIs Rooted in Immigrants' Culture"


You said, "Hispanics have a higher murder rate than any other minority except Blacks."

You've used this sort of statement before, and basically argued that, therefore, fewer Hispanics and Blacks = less crime.

stop me if this isn't underlying point you're making, but the implication of this argument is that Hispanics and blacks commit more crimes BECAUSE they are black or Hispanic. I know you are aware that you are walking a fine line on a delicate subject, and I'm sure you can understand how that sort of an argument could be mistaken as being racist.

epilogue: In this post I have not accused anyone of being a bigot, nor was it my intent to do so. cheers,

Jack said:

Actually, Puffalump, it is CULTURE, not RACE, that is the problem. I do not have the numbers in front of me, but African immigrants are amoung the most economically successful groups in the United States.

When the Hispanics assimilate into American culture, their crime rates will go down.

Puft, I assume finals are approaching or mid-terms are being graded and that is why you were uncharacteristically lax in referencing my post on immigrants and DWIs.

If you had followed and read the article linked to you would have seen A) I lifted that title directly from the newspaper, and B) the sources for that contention were "Hispanics" and Hispanic-advocates quoted in the article itself!

Personally, I have no direct evidence about whether or not drunk driving is rooted in immigrant culture.

stay puft said:

oh ok, you didn't write the article, you only felt that it was newsworthy enough, and that it contributed to the discussion enough, to post it on this blog. Excuse me for thinking that you endorsed the piece in any way.

It absolutely does contribute to the discussion if a group self-reports they have a cultural prediliction toward drinking and driving - in the context of the current debate.

Do I need to spell that out?

As to my "endorsement" - WTF? Eliseo Herndandez says drunk driving is common in his home country. The counselor says "If you can drink 12 beers, you're a man."

Plus, I really don't get your point. If someone gets run over by an illegal alien drunk driver who has been arrested and released numerous times - many, many more times than a citizen would have been allowed (as in the Joseph Passarelli case) - you clearly have a situation where crimes by illegal aliens are being winked at because the law enforcement personnel or judges do not want or are not allowed to keep them in custody.

That is the issue.

Are you saying, because we do not have statistical certainty that illegal aliens are MOST likely to commit DWI, we therefore cannot detain them when they do it?

Sorry, but I am just not following you and I have to wonder if you've thought this through.

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man said:

My comment was in response to your saying, "I've ever [sic] seen anyone make the argument here that illegal aliens are more likely to commit crimes than any other demographic"

My point is that The Argument has in fact been made, here, by you, by Jack, by No Relation, probably others. that's all I'm trying to say.

Kevin said:

"If you can drink 12 beers, you're a man." I thought this was true, no matter what culture you come from? O well, back to the man manual for me!

I bet the system is set up, not to "wink" at crimes committed by illegal immigrants, so much as scratch its head at them.

Jack said:

Actually, it has been very hard for us to determine whether illegal immigrants commit more crime, because the government has been loath to keep such records. (Why?)

So we have had to use Hispanics or immigrants in general as a proxy. In other posts, I have shown that in VA, at least, 10% of the prison population are immigrants, while 6% of the general population are immigrants. I have also shown that the murder rate for Hispanic victims is 9 per 100,000, versus 2 per 100,000 for non-Hispanic Whites and 18 per 100,000 for Blacks.

I would much prefer that we start tracking crimes by illegals, and deport EVERY illegal immigrant found.

Kevin said:

Grrr, Jack. Did you SHOW that in the VA, at least 10% of the prison population is immigrant? Also, are you meaning to say "illegal" or just immigrant? I remember that fact citing, I just don't remember your citing any facts. It was some formula you created, I thought? Something along the lines of "assuming that the . . ." I don't remember what you said but there was something weird about it.

Jack said:

Actually, the link was posted by another. Immigrant, but not broken out by legal or illegal.

The numbers are not mine.

The difficult calculation was to separate the Hispanic murder rate from the White and Black murder rates, since Hispanics are not a racial classification as far as the FBI is concerned. I used other sources that estimate the Hispanic murder rate at about 9 per 100,000. Hispanics self-classify as 90% White, and 10% Black, so I subtracted those Hispanic victims from the White and Black victim counts, and re-calculated the murder rates for Whites and Blacks.

The result was that, while the overall U.S. murder rate is 5 per 100,000, the rate for White victims is around 2 per 100,000, 9 per 100,000 for Hispanics, and 18 per 100,000 for Blacks.

Puft, it depends on the crime. I guess I can't vouch for what Jack or NR have argued - but I hope you are not straying into Zimzo territory by twisting someone's arguments from the past. Has NR really weighed in about crimes committed by illegals?

What I should have said is I have not made the argument etc etc.

The only argument I've made is regarding gang activity in our town, and that happens to be beyond dispute. The increase is directly related to the increase in illegal immigration.

In this town, as a general rule the people who have moved out the past 5 years are elderly anglos, and those who have moved in are Hispanics, many of whom are illegal.

You would have to be many cards short of a full deck to argue we would have the same increase in shootings and violence that have been caused by the gangs if the population in these neighborhoods were still Mr. and Mrs Jones who have lived here since 1968.

But regarding non-gang violence, I have no idea how illegal aliens stack up. One would guess they would try to keep a low profile if they were not gang members and were here solely to make money and send it home.

Kevin said:

Thanks for clarifying. BTW, poor crystal.

"crystal?" Is that some sort of abstract beer-related comment

Kevin said:

No, read the last comment on the last link Jack posted. However, I'd take a bottle in front of me over a frontal lobotomy any day!

Egads, I never caught that before - guess it was during one of my busy times. I wonder if we should do something ...

jacob said:

Stolle is a another politician with his finger in the wind. The only sad thing is the guy is in office.

jacob said:

For the record, judging by the picture, he keeps terrible company.

eileen said:

Buzz around these southern parts is that Stolle has gots him a primary opponent! Anybody wanna give a little Dem lady like me a heads up on who? Pretty please...

Eileen, it must be unfounded. No one would dare challenge Stolle, as far as I've heard.

Jack said:

Tony Blair also thinks it's culture, not race:,,2055148,00.html

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