Unlawful Aliens 6-10% of Virginia Inmates

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As we already noted in the comments to this post, foreign-born inmates account for a disproportionate percentage of our jail population. We did not know at the time, however, what percentage of those were legally in the United States and which were not. Now we have a better idea.

This article in the Washington Times tells us that unlawful aliens make up 6-10% of the inmates. 86% of the unlawful aliens in Virginia jails are Hispanic.

2003 numbers (see the earlier post) showed only that 10% of the inmates were foreign born. Now we see that the majority are also here illegally. This should not be surprising, since those who take the time and trouble to immigrate legally have already demonstrated, by their taking the time and trouble, that they are hard-working and law-abiding people, while those who have come here illegally have shown a willingness to break the law to get what they want.

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41 Comments

Dan said:

Considering that it costs approximately $65 dollars a day to incarcerate one inmate, using the numbers the Times reports, this is $893K a day, a very significant amount of money. On top of this we must also factor the cost to investigate these 27,148 crimes, and the economic impact of the crime itself.

Yes, Virginia, there is a problem here.. I guess Governor Kaine would rather use our tax dollars to incarcerate illegal aliens because he "has concerns" about deporting them. Stop the hand wringing Mr. Governor, or get off the pot..

stay puft marshmallow man said:

as long as we're spending $300,000,000 a day in Iraq I don't want to hear about $893K being a lot of money.

what would deporting them accomplish anyway if they could just come back in? The governor of Virginia isn't in charge of the US-Mexico border, what's he supposed to do?

Jack said:

Find out where they live and deport every illegal living there. Then confiscate their property.

jacob said:

Marshmallow,
the money we spend in Iraq it can be argued is in our self interest. How do you arue the money spent on illegals is in any way shape or form to be in the best interest of the country?

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

"The majority of offenses for which illegal aliens are held in the state's jails involved alcohol or the possession of fake identification documents."

Seems like a new form of circular reasoning to me.

Also in order to make this statement:

"...foreign-born inmates account for a disproportionate percentage of our jail population."

Or draw any other anti-illegal alien (read hispanic) conclusions, you need to provide a little more data. The ratio of illegals aliens to non-native born residents in the general state population and the total percentage of foreign-born in the general state population.

Finally, you need to adjust your statistics to account for these percentages in the general population at or below the poverty level (I think you can find a plethora of publication documenting the link between income and crime statistics) and you might be getting somewhere.

As usual, the devil is in the details - unless you are prone to hyperbole that is in which case to hell with the details.

Jack said:

Actually, Troll, I provided that data already. Read the links before commenting, please.

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

_______________
________________
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0826sanctionsimpact08260.html?&wired

Who woulda think, an EFFECTIVE method of addressing illegal immigration - the root cause (and no hispanics are vilified in the process).

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

Hey, you-don't-know, I read your links. No data on adjusting the stats to account for the link between poverty and crime. Furthermore YOU said:

"In sum, I'm not sure whether there is yet any scientifically incontrovertible proof of a connection between illegal aliens and violent crime..."

Well, gee, that's pretty much what I said isn't it?

Troll, do you actually mean that when you praise the AZ solution - because that is exactly what Help Save Loudoun is advocating for. Who woulda thunk. Nice to have you aboard.

Jack said:

Troll, we're talking about crime in general, not just violent crime, and the expense of keeping these unlawful aliens in jail.

If you wish to present data on crime and poverty, go right ahead. I suspect you will find that poor Blacks and poor Hispanics commit more crime, per capita, than poor do Whites. Perhaps there is a link between the CULTURE and crime and poverty -- that it is not the poverty that causes the crime, but the culture contributes to both the crime and the poverty.

Dan said:

Here we go again, we try to discuss "illegal aliens" and the left has pulled yet another race card out of it's deck. Do you guys print these up yourself as you see fit?

Can someone please tell me what country the race of people known as "illegal aliens" comes from ? I keep looking at my globe (granted it is outdated as it still shows Checkoslovikia ) searching for a country such as Illegalalienland, Illegalalienbourg, and it's not there. Next, I googled "The Illegalalien Union", and this too could not be found. Assuming that it must be there, I also attempted to translate the names of other countries on the continents of Africa, South America and Asia to see if any of the names translate into anything near the aforementioned (I must qualify this by stating that I did omit Antarctica). As a last ditch effort, I tried to confirm if the continent of Atlantis was ever referred to as Illegalalientis. Also a dead end.. Something is amiss..

Illegal alien is a status describing those who entered out country in violation of our laws. If our law is disrespected, so it our country, and her citizens. Accept this fact.

Be off with your red herrings troll, we have answered your three questions, run along now and leave us to our passage..

stay puft marshmallow man said:

Jacob, are you asking how removing criminals from the streets is in the public interest?

Dan,

Yes, whenever people advocate hunting down and arresting an entire group of people they're going to have to defend that position against accusations of racism. That's the nature of the beast. Think of it as an anti-racism safety net in action.

"run along now" ? No need to get condescending

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

Dan,

Jack drew the first race card with this statement:

"86% of the unlawful aliens in Virginia jails are Hispanic"

So be off yourself.

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

Joe,

I am with you on the AZ solution - as I've stated previously. The focus should be on the employers. They are the one's causing the problem. So where is Eugene et al on THAT issue?

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

Jack,

Regarding the stats, poverty, etc. All I'm saying is that if you want to make the argument that the number of illegal aliens is disproportionately large in jail, you have to show that this is indeed true. Just saying that illegals are a majority of the foreign born in jail means nothing unless you are saying that illegals are a minority of the foreign born in the general population. Then you have to start arguing what other contributing factors may be in play. For instance, IF illegals are also a majority of POOR foreign born then it COULD be that the statistic is explained by income status rather than immigration status.

As I said the devil is in the details.

Jack said:

Troll -- Hispanic is not a race. "Hispanic: Defined by self-identification, Hispanic origin refers to ethnicity, not race. Persons of
Hispanic origin may be of any race." http://www.state.nj.us/humanservices/das/Chartbooks/Co%20&%20Munc%20Chrtbk%20Soc%20Indicators/Burlington/Municipal%20Chartbook/4.%20Appendix.pdf

So you could say I drew an "ethnicity" card. :-)

Still, I expect you will find the driver in crime is culture, not race or ethnicity. Thus, while the racial makeup of the U.S. is similar to that of Great Britain and Canada, the violent crime rates in those countries are far higher than in the United States, even with the higher crime rates of the Blacks and Hispanics, who make much smaller minorities in Great Britain and Canada.

Jack said:

Troll -- here are some numbers:

First, an estimate that 1.361% of people in Virginia are illegal immigrants (2000 Census): http://www.statemaster.com/state/VA-virginia/peo-people

9.5% of people in Virginia were foreign born (2004): http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_per_of_peo_who_are_for_bor-people-percent-who-foreign-born

So illegal immigrants comprise 1.361% of the general population and 4.4% of the jail and prison population, for a ratio of 3.2. Meanwhile, Blacks' incarceration ratio is 3.1: http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

All of this is, of course, quite irrelevant. The unlawful aliens should not be here in the first place. They should be on planes to Tapachula International Airport.

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

So Jack, since blacks and illegals have about the same incarceration ratio, why would you say that illegals are disproportionately high? Not compared to the blacks they are not.

Now what do blacks and illegals have in common that might explain this because remember correlation does not imply causation.

Dan said:

stay_puft,

"arresting an entire group of " CRIMINALS requires no justification.

We do not need to arrest them, this is a fallacy being spread by the apologists. Cut off the gravy train and they will leave voluntarily. This new paradigm is being played as I write, in AZ, in OK, and in Herndon.

Jack said:

Troll -- "Now what do blacks and illegals have in common that might explain this...?"

Both cultures glorify illegal behavior.

But it doesn't matter, does it? The unlawful immigrants should not be here in the first place. Deport them and be done with it.

Troll, none of the supervisors has done anything on this part of the issue although some are moving in the right direction. They will need to take a stand shortly, as will local candidates for the General Assembly (which has the power to do more.)

Kevin said:

"Both cultures glorify illegal behavior." Right. US culture doesn't, that's for sure. Or weren't you including black and hispanic culture as part of US culture?

Let's have some US culture then! What is US culture, if we know, as you assert, that it does not incorporate "black culture" or "hispanic culture". Do I have US culture? Do you? What about those recently assimilated from Africa (weren't you singing their praises in the not too distant past?). Do tell. Help explain US culture.

Jack said:

We do not have a homogeneous culture, Kevin.

Kevin said:

Nor, one could argue, are subcultures within US culture homogeneous (i.e. "black" culture, "Hispanic" culture). And yes, US culture taken as a grouping of subcultures, does glorify violence; you bet. (Even the whities do!)

Jack said:

If the Whites in the United States glorify violence, why is our homoicide rate less than one quarter of the Black rate, and less than one-half of the Hispanic rate. Why is the violent crime rate of Canada and Great Britain TWICE the U.S. rate?

Kevin said:

Huh! That's a good question, Jack! Looks like you're going to have to look toward some more complex reason! Good critical thinking, though. You should do it more often, it becomes you (with practice).

Jack said:

Actually, the reasons for the unlawful aliens' higher crime rates are irrelevant. Unlawful aliens should not be here at all -- so deport them.

Tom said:

One thing that makes the British violent crime rate so high is that included in the statistics are "Anti-social behaviour and "low-level thuggery", according to the BBC.
Interesting too when you look at Canada is that with 1/10 the population of the US they had 658 homicides in 2005, while in the same year here there were 17,000. In other words they had more than 20 times fewer homicides than us, but the population difference is only ten times. And Canada is bilingual and very diverse,at least in Ontario and on the West Coast.

Dave said:

Jack's whacked. Do you know what would happen to our economy if all of a sudden you removed the 12M illegal immigrants? That frankly do all the crappy jobs so folks like us don't have to? Plus add in the cost of finding/catching/deporting?

Give me a break. If there was a simple solution, don't you think we would've done it? As far as I'm concerned the federal government has decided it likes the situation just the way it is. Who are we to argue?

Jacob said:

Dave,
Who said anything is simple? It took us 20 years to climb into this mess. It may take 20 years to climb out. 12 to 20M illegal aliens cannot be bussed out overnight. BUT, we can start to reverse the process by:
1. providing NO public assistance for illegals
2. heavily fining the business owners who do hire illegal aliens.
3. deporting every illegal alien who is caught in a crime AFTER they serve their sentence
4. deporting every illegal who is found at aroutine traffic stop etc
5. vigorously enforce all zoning ordinances, and other other 'broken windows' offenses

this will reduce the numbers, many will leave on their own. What got them here was the blackmarket economy, with item 1,2 and 5 we will put a dent in that economy.

Jack said:

Tom, if you run the numbers, you will see that the homicide rate for non-Hispanic Whites in the United States is essentially the same as the rate in Canada. The Hispanic rate, however, is more than twice as high, and the Black rate is twice the Hispanic rate.

For the violent crime rates, we're talking about similar things, such as rape, robbery, etc. One statistic that is particularly interesting is that the rate of OCCUPIED home break-ins in Canada is four times the U.S. rate.

(See the earlier posts under "Crime" and "Gun Control.")

Jack said:

So, Dave, who was doing all those jobs before the illegals came in?

Tom said:

I guess I have no ideological interest in breaking down the Canadian homicides by race. They're all people.

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

Joe wrote:

"They will need to take a stand shortly, as will local candidates for the General Assembly (which has the power to do more.)"

Here's an idea, Joe, that the BOS could easily do. Any farm found to be hiring illegals will lose its County tax deferral and will immediately have to pay roll back taxes.

Yeah, they'll squeal but it will immediately change the economics of using illegal alien labor on the farms.

An equally strident policy (like suspending their business licenses) can be devised for the developers and landscaping companies.

A couple simple resolutions and we are there. Then Jack can start "rounding them up" - oh, yeah...he wouldn't have to...

Dave said:

Jack,

We were doing those jobs: Things like lawn care or maid service, or they are new jobs: More fast food & restaurants. These are jobs that are difficult to automate, so we've, effectively, imported cheap labor to do them for us, thereby improving our standard of living.

Without them, we'd have fewer choices of where to eat, costs would go up, and we'd all start cleaning our own houses and mowing our own lawns again. Sure, we may end up saving a few bucks in federal taxes (though not local), but I, for one, hardly think it's worth it, especially if other costs go up.

It's not like we have a huge unemployment problem, and we won't do those jobs anyway, even if we did. I remember the Reagan years of hugh unemployment and we still had "Help Wanted" signs in almost every fast food restaurant.

Eric, I hadn't thought of the tax deferral approach. We're asking the Supervisor candidates to take a position on three measures relating to companies doing business with the County, and requiring an affidavit of legal hiring be submitted with BPOL returns. I'll show you what we came up with after survey's are mailed.

Jack said:

"I guess I have no ideological interest in breaking down the Canadian homicides by race. They're all people." --Tom

So it is in the United States. The point is to determine who is at risk, and why.

"A couple simple resolutions and we are there." --Troll

We need more than resolutions, we need resolve -- to actually enforce the laws.

"Then Jack can start "rounding them up" - oh, yeah...he wouldn't have to..." --Troll

I hope you are right.

"It's not like we have a huge unemployment problem..." --Dave

That depends on what you mean by "we." Our teenagers DO have an unemployment problem, and it is those burger-flipper jobs that our teen usually take. 2004 was the worst year since WWII for teen summer employment, and 2005 was only marginally better: http://www.nyec.org/summer_joblessness.htm (I'm sorry I do not have more recent data.)

The problem is considerably worse for Black teens. This problem exacerbates the problem of Black employment later in their lives, since Blacks are less likely to go to college than Whites. Unless one's summer employment is in his field of study, such as a co-op student, a college graduates grades are more important than his summer work experience. Contrariwise, the summer employment of a high-school graduate, being essentially unskilled labor, is critical to his finding a job after graduation:

"We find evidence of large and significant later earnings benefits to high school work for at-risk youth, in spite of substantial short term educational costs. And while there are also benefits for not at-risk youth, they are not as large. We suspect the reason high school employment is more important for at-risk youth is that work provides them a structured environment with clear rewards and support not available to them in other aspects of their lives. In addition, employment establishes connections to the work world that their school experiences and families may be less able to provide." http://www.urban.org/publications/406506.html

Dave said:

Couple of points:
1. It's summer jobs only, not year-round ones.
2. 1/2 of teens aren't even looking for jobs any more. According to USA Today:

WASHINGTON — Most U.S. teenagers were not working or looking for work at the beginning of the summer for the first time on record, suggesting teens are forgoing the traditional summertime work at ice cream stands, camps and pools.
Only 48.8% of teens ages 16 to 19 were working or looking for work in June, the Labor Department said Friday. That was down from 51.6% in June 2006 and below the 60.2% in the labor force in June 2000.

Labor force participation among teens in June peaked in 1978, when 67.7% of Americans ages 16 to 19 were working or looking for work. Data have been collected since 1948.

But the decline doesn't mean students are idle.

Perhaps the biggest reason teens are bypassing work is to spend more time studying, even during the summer: 37.6% of teens ages 16 to 19 were enrolled in school in July 2006, up from 36.5% a year earlier and more than three times the share enrolled two decades ago, according to the Labor Department.

Jack said:

Good points, indeed, Dave. It is possible, though, that teens aren't looking for jobs because the illegals have taken them and driven down the wages.

It would also be interesting to see who is doing the summer school -- the one's who are repeating a class, or those who are trying to get ahead.

Eric the 1/2 troll said:

"...that teens aren't looking for jobs because the illegals have taken them and driven down the wages"

Jack,

I know its semantics but I think it would be more accurate to suggest that the jobs were given to illegal aliens by illegal employers. I really do not think that the worker sets out to take a job from another - more that the illegal employer CHOOSES to give the job to another.

Jack said:

And the employer can do that because the illegal workers can be paid "under the table" without paying payroll taxes.

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