Loudoun Farce

Again with the elitists crap. Joe, I expected better.
What's so elite about the west?
I can name a couple of gals out here who think they're above the rest of their neighbors, but alas...they're pushing the agenda of the CPR.
They've hired a flaming liberal to do it, and they do not want to hear from those they violated.

Other than that, there's just us tax-paying, law-abiding, honest-day's-work folks out here.

Are you carrying the east/west fairy tale for that bunch again? And we had hit it off so well.

Oh, go sink another drink, honcho; this is another context entirely.

We're talking about social/geographical elitists, not property rights/development elitists.

Valle and Weintraub represent the people in the west who say the people in the east should not be complaining about the influx of illegal aliens - because the Valles and Weintraubs don't see it as a big deal. Thus I call them "elitists" along with the others who live in gated communities and are otherwise removed from the reality they purport to weigh in in.

There is an east-west aspect to it, is there not? But certainly I do not lump all westerners in with these elitists.

P.S. I assume you know I am going to be p-ssing you off REALLY bad in the near future with regard to a certain local elected official whose hat is visible from three miles away in the fog. I expect the wounds from THAT conflict will remain open until the healing magic of the BDBB conquers all.

So in the meantime, we might as well not pick fights over things we do not even disagree on, right?

The Loudoun Farce crime statistics in Sterling, I feel obligated to ask the question "Given these numbers are coming from a Sheriff's office, where the Sheriff is in a very heated re-election contest, how can I trust the date has not been sanitized to help with his campaign ?"

Point number two ; "Loudoun County’s population increased by 51%. Assuming Sterling Park’s population increased proportionally, "

This shows a rather gross ignorance of not just Sterling, but Loudoun County as well. Projecting Sterling's growth forward equal to that of the county, well, South Riding, Ashburn, Landsdowne, guess these western Loudoun folks must assume everything east of 15 is Sterling..

My kids can't wear red, blue, or black shirts to school because they are colors associated with Hispanic gangs, is this also true in Luckett's Ms. Valle ?

Two miles from my house, a man was run over and dragged to his death by an illegal migrant driver, that had been stopped several times by local law enforcement ? Lucketts ever see anything like this ?

At least one night a month I hear gunshots out my back door. Does this also occur in Luckett's Ms. Valle ?

At the local drug store, during evening hours, when an LCSO patrol car shows up, the parking lot empties out. Does this happen at your drug store in Lucketts Ms. Valle ?

Ms. Valle, I did not bring up crime, you did. Crime is but one symptom of illegal migration. I am not interested in treating the symptoms. My goal is a solution to the underlying problem.

The real crime here in Loudoun is the crime of the taxpayers in Loudoun having to foot the bill for corrupt businesses, unions, and yes, charities, feasting on revenues generated by illegal migrants. Not just eastern Loudoun taxpayers, but central and western as well. It is time for the Loudoun hogs to get their snouts out of the taxpayers pockets.

Joe is on the money here.

Not only did they delete Joes specific post, they also removed the usernames from two members of HSL who were involved in the discussions. I was one of those deleted. The admin at Loudoun Farce aren't really intrested in open honest political debate. They are intrested in creating a liberal echo chamber. A chamber in which smug self centered liberal elites, social engineers and those wishing to feel their way through life can listen to themselves save the world.

These are the people who would not know dynamic analysis if you stuck it in their ear. Cause and effect is such a meaningless concept to them that it almost never enters the debate.
They live in a static world engaging in hours of mindless static analysis in pursuit of solutions that feel right. They ignore rational thought at all costs. It is the process of rational thought, logic and reason that exposes their formulation of policies by feel as a fraud.They don't actually have to solve any problems. They don't have to actually take any actions. As long as they feel they have done something that in and of itself is enough.

No sir, you clarified it, and that's good enough for me. You see, I CAN reason and be reasoned WITH.
Thank you for that very well presented clarification.
Look forward to your orange hat special. We can deal with that. He's easily torn apart when you roll all the right rocks over.
But I've fought for your right to put his case out there for us to pick over.

Mr. Budzinski,
I've attached your comment below. You were in violation of the following guideline that you agreed to:

7. For comments that you post, you agree to focus on the issues at-hand and to not include personal attacks. Basically, your comments should always treat other members of the community with respect and dignity.

You slandered the Sheriff's department, you attacked the character of Laura and David.

This tone and these type of character attacks are simply unacceptable on our site.

==============================================
Mr. Budzinski's Post:

Perhaps an important fact about the Loudoun County Zoning Administration Department needs to be clarified: They are a big part of the problem. I am going to write about this in more depth soon.
I realize David and Laura are safely ensconced out in Western Loudoun and have about zero familiarity with what is really happening here.
“Isolated problem houses?” “Grass not being cut?” Really, David! As though bad landscaping is what has the citizens in an uproar. In contrast to Lovettsville and Luckets, David, Sterling has the very real problem of boarding houses in what used to be single family homes. There are many of them, and I submit to you if they went away the controversy over illegal immigration in this area would be over. We would not be having this conversation.
Unfortunately, Zoning is not going to fix it until we get a new Zoning dept, and even then it is difficult. The way to fix it is to end the illegal hiring. That is Help Save Loudoun’s focus.
And on a side note: I am trying to leave you alone, Laura, I really am. But between you and your buddy David you just keep stepping in it and making yourself the story. Your comment above that “what seems to make them hot spots is in part because of the number of complaints, not the number of actual violations” is really, really ignorant and only further burnishes your credentials as an out of touch elitist criticizing the actual residents of Sterling who want to fix their community.
You do not know what you are talking about, ok? The local government may produce statistics to support the contention “there is no problem” - but did you ever think that maybe they have a vested interest in doing so? Like when the Sheriff says the county “crime rate” has gone down to deflect attention from what has happened in Sterling the past two years - which every resident can see with their own eyes?
My advice to you: Stick with what you know. Your mission is supposedly to help the immigrant community, so go do that. Weighing in on matters of which you have little knowledge not only does not reflect well on La Voz, but it makes you an antagonist of the legal residents of eastern Loudoun. Being an antagonist is not a wise role for you.

Joe, did I understand you to be saying that you think I live in a *gated community*?

I suppose that could be construed as true if I were to close the gate. Thanks for the laugh.

Your claim that either Laura or me said "in essence" that the problems in Sterling being attributed to illegal immigrants are "bogus," however, is completely false. You are obviously free here to make all the misrepresentations of other people you like, but I don't think it is serving you well.

No, David, I know you do not live in a gated community, but I lumped you in with those who do to characterize a certain mindset.

I am not misrepresenting you at all. I have read quite a lot that you have written on this topic and I think I represented you accurately based on your writings. As you know, I would love to do a full length exegesis to show what I mean, but alas there will not be time for that now.

All that being said, if what I am doing strikes such you in such a way that you don't think it is serving me well, then I guess I am doing something right and everything is as it should be. Thank you.

David, a word of advice: when la voz has used you all up, they will be finished with you.

You and people like you are only being used to achieve their agenda, only the final result includes no one like you.

Hispanics only support hispanics (the race, la raza), they use panderers only until they are of no further use to them. They seek out the weak and ignorant.

I have lived and worked around hispanics for decades, I have learned all agendas and games. They are only networking you.

David, LaVoz and others like them are pulling a page from the old soviet playbook. You are as they used to say, a usuful idiot.

A convenient yet foolish ally. But onto more important things.

I have read Joe's post now three times in search of the offending remarks.

I believe the true motivation was that Laura by her own admission was starting to get mad. As we all know, as soon as a liberal elitist gets mad, content and debate go out the window. We are now forced to focus on the feelings of the participants. As we all know the second someone gets the slightest emotional twinge, it is time to shut down further debate lest we offend anyone.

Loudoun Farce wants discussions wrapped in bubble wrap and dipped in political correctness as to maintaine a certain balence. You see opinions too far in any direction from the accepted left of center, are simply judged as potentially offensive.

They like the thought police on todays college campuses are practicing what is in their own minds " reasonable censorship ", this management of language and ideas is after all for our own good.
Those thoughts and ideas that travel too far from the acceptable leftist playbook are simply deleted.If they can't be deleted, they are ignored. If they can't be ignored, they are shouted down.
This of course is done under the guise of fairness.

In their world, it is not free speech, but acceptable speech. You can say whatever you want, as long as it jives with one of the pages in the playbook.

For them the right not to be offended or upset was simply forgotten by those old dead white guys who authored the constitution.

First of all, I lived for five years in NE Leesburg (Meadows Lane) and dealt with all of the issues that you are dealing with in Sterling Park (it is probably quite worse there as a matter of fact). We have lived in Lucketts for 2 years now. Our house is about 2000 sq ft on less than an care and our combined income is less than $30,000 a year. I am not a Democrat, I am Independent, but I have almost always voted Republican. I come from an extremely conservative family. I have never considered myself "Hispanic" (at least not exclusively, and certainly not culturally), as a matter of fact I learned to speak Spanish less than 10 years ago.
So despite your assumptions about me, I do know what I am talking about from 1st hand experience, I am not a liberal elite, I am not a Western Loudoun elite, and I have never insulted or dispareged the residents of Sterling. Perhaps I have disagreed with the views of Help Save Loudoun, but disagreeing with a group that has formulated positions does not mean that I have in any way a negative view of the residents of an entire community. As a matter of fact, the only person that I know that has insulted such a broad group of people is Joe B, who wrote "Let's review the bedfellows: corporate executives in construction, meat packing, and many other industries; the U.S. Chamber of Commerce; plutocrats and wealthy individuals such as Carlos Slim of Mexico (the richest man in the world); socialist leaders Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez; Catholic Charities; AFL-CIO; National Education Association; La Raza; George W. Bush; George Soros; Ted Kennedy; the Wall Street Journal; the New York Times; International A.N.S.W.E.R.; Democratic National Committee; Republican National Committee; Democratic activists like David Weintraub -- you get the idea" and Ron Maxwell who also scorns all of suburbia.

Greg, what upset me was not your posts relating to zoning, it was the other post with the very offensive suggestion that the Mexican gov. is trying to export the following 3 groups of people
"1. Poor Mexican Indians, as opposed to elite decendents of the Spanish
2. Poor mexican Indian criminals.
3. All non- Mexican South American migrants poor or criminal or both."

There are so many problems with that it is not even worth addressing further.

Loudoun Force shuts down debate not when things get emotional, but rather when those debating begin to insult the intelligence and integrity of the people with whom they do not agree. How could this debate not provoke emotion? It is the incredibly strong emotions provoked that make the County Board meetings feel like a Southern Baptist church on a Sunday afternoon whenever Help Save Loudoun is there en masse. I love those churches BTW, no insult there.

However, there are enough relevant arguments, statistics, and issues to focus on, there is no need to invent a personality for me which is based on stereotypes and has no basis in reality. There is also no need to insult my intelligence and attack my character.

I am sure that someone will go back to my infamous blog, apply creative intrepretation and leave out some relevant parts. What can I do? Jospeh takes such care when analysing the written word, unless they are my words, in which acse he just leaves out the details.

Nova Town Hall blogworld seems to be for those that have hours on end to play blog ping pong. It is like a game of who can outwit who, without civility, never lacking in insults. I don't have the time or the stomach for it. I just wanted to set the record straight about myself.

Joe,

I think it is the incivility, personal attacks, and (as exemplified by the comment @ 4:12) racist stereotyping of the Hispanic community that goes on here that Loudoun Force would prefer not to emulate, hence they have a commenting policy. At Equality Loudoun we have a commenting policy for much the same reason. We want to maintain a civil tone and reasonably high level of discussion, and not allow threads to degenerate into name calling, as so often happens here.

It is the right of blog administrators to make that kind of decision. If that cramps your style, you can always choose to express your opinions in a more respectful manner.

One more thing: although I'm resigned to being puzzled over my inclusion on your laundry list of "bedfellows," I cannot be properly described as a "Democratic activist." That is unfair to the people who do the hard work on campaigns getting Democratic candidates elected. I don't primarily do that kind of partisan work, I primarily work with Equality Loudoun and other similar community groups. You could - if you are concerned about accuracy - more accurately describe me as a civil rights activist.

First off David, you are indeed a staunch democrat and activist as seen on the Dems web site which list you as their technology manager or some such title. Why you would try to run away from it escapes me.

As to Joe's posting, if that is objectionable then some people have really thin skins. I saw nothing that was slanderous, libelious, nor particurly insulting. I always thought the blog world was where one gave their opinions both for and against the subject matter. It's sad if one is only allowed to post those comments that are like in nature and in agreement with the moderator or blog. Lively discussion should be encouraged not discouraged. I would think David would vehemently object to people who are only allowed to post one side of an argument since he and Equality Loudoun typically are not considered "mainstream". You, David should have a right to post your opinion and Joe B. should be able to post his. Plain and simple.

Nope. You have me confused with my husband.

Laura:

The vast majority of illegals coming from Mexico and points south are poor and uneducated.

Mexico is not exporting their middle and upper classes. They are exporting their poor. Export as in wink and a nod, encourage, make easy, facilitate or assist, you get the picture. Do not try and tell me that this massive wave of people are dentists and accountants just looking for a place to open shop.They are their nations poor and they want them to become our nations poor. Let the saps, liberals and money hunry gringos in America take on this burden, they have lots of money, compassion and an never ending appetite for cheap
uneducated labor

They are a burden on the Mexican system, so the Mexican power structure encourages them to go north.Go be a burden somewhere else. By the way when you get there send some $$$ back to mom and dad.

It amazes me that folks such as yourself make excuses, and have become apologists for the wretched behavior of the Mexican Government. You talk of compassion for these illegals while never saying a word about the treatment they receive from their own government.
Somehow, in this absolutly bizarre mix, Mexico gets a pass. They somehow have managed to garner victim status because we actually want to send them back their poor citizens. The mexican government is getting picked on by all of these american bigots.

What could possibly be offensive about me pointing out the common practices of a corrupt foreign government. A government that in order to stay in power, must rely on " encourging " their poorest citizens to sneek into another country under the dark of night. A government with so much compassion for the mexican family ,that they encourage fathers to leave their families behind while they seek illegal employment in another country.

Your outrage fails to move me. If you wish to pretend that this government is actually operating in the best intrest of the mexican poor, then knock yourself out. If you want to believe that those sneaking across the desert
are actually middle class folks just looking for the next upgrade in the game of life go right ahead. However, those beliefs don't square with reality.

This mexican government treats people like cattle and you are pissed at me.

Go figure.

blog ping pong isn't a bad idea.

All,

I had a great interview with Loudoun Force. Clearly, this issue stirs emotions on both sides. Loudoun Force and I have different beliefs on how to deal with the illegal immigration problem. As I probably disagree with them on social issues as well. From a former deputy's perspective who worked 5 years in Steling Park, the community has gotten significantly worse. My former co-workers and members of the gang unit who have seen it change would agree.

Statistics can be manipulated to show about what ever you want. For example, people might look at the # of traffic tickets given out last year compared to five years ago and say "statistics show there are more violations now". When in fact, we have more traffic deputies writing tickets now than we did five years ago. The focus on the traffic division is to write 100 tickets a month now (per motorcycle officer). In fact, in fiscal year 2006, I wrote @ 1,200 tickets, probably the most in the entire department, but my evaluation from my supervisor said I needed to "write more tickets". Huh? So use these statistics with a grain of salt. The statistics written on a piece of paper don't help the citizens feel safer. If Mr. Simpson believed that crime and these issues were getting better as his statistics show why did he reverse his stance on the ICE issue after 2 and 1/2 years of saying we don't need it? I have stated my intentions with the ICE program. There are those like National Council of La Raza, La Voz and others who disagree with it. I don't expect their vote, but I will gladly speak with them. This is why we have elections. I am giving the citizens a choice, a new direction, in dealing with this.

On a separate note, I was wondering if Jonathan was going to correct or update the factual information about me on his website? Google my name. As far as I know unless Jonathan or the poster is anti-sematic they could put at least an update to that post. I believe Loudoun Force could verify that if needed also.

I say this because I have seen past statements from David and/or Jonathan criticizing candidates for not "updating information they know is false". I just wondered if that works both ways?

Again, if people disagree with me on my patriotism or religious views and choose not to vote for me because of them, that is your choice. Unlike many politicians (which I have seen enough of already from both sides of the aisle), I embrace who am I am what I believe. I respect that quality in others, even when I disagree with them.

Mr. Budzinski,

No one got kicked off the LoudounForce site.

There was simply a policy change in which we are now requiring everyone to register before posting a comment. If you and Dan choose to register, then we welcome your comments and views. Just stick to addressing the issues, and be careful not to attack the character of other members of the community.

If your going to assert an accusation of criminal conduct of anyone in the community, as you did with the Sheriff's department, it must be authoritatively sourced.

We are getting ready to post a series that covers interviews we have had with Greg Ahlemann, Steve Simpson and Mike George and we want to make sure that the atmosphere surrounding these interviews remains professional and civil.

I removed two lines from Dan's post, that were simply personal attacks, and added nothing of substance to the debate.

Your single post was moderated because it violated the Discussion Guidelines, as I mentioned.

You're free to post the substance of your comment again, minus all the violations.

Greg, to what site are you referring? I just did a search for your name on Equality Loudoun, and the only thing that came up was an article about the anti-gay ads run by your father's church:
http://www.equalityloudoun.org/2007/07/25/pastoral-care/

That was probably the source of that rumor in the first place.

We haven't posted any information about you - but we did send out your campaign information to our mailing list along with all other candidates who responded to our invitation.

If what you refer to is on our site, it would have to be a comment from someone else. However, I don't recall ever seeing an anti-Semitic comment.

Can you clarify what you're talking about?

David,

It shows up on "google". See comments #19 and #24.

http://www.equalityloudoun.org/2007/06/23/gone-too-far/

Not attributed to you, but incorrect. I'm glad to "roll up the sleeves". I do try to look professional when I campaign which is why I also keep my daughter's March Of Dimes bracelet tucked away. Some might not see it as appropriate but when your daughter is born more than 3 months premature (2lbs), it's a way for me to keep perspective on what's important. Politics is down the list. Sometimes it's a good reminder.

Dear Mr. Ahlemann,

With all due respect, I do take issue with your dismissive statements to the Part 1 Crime reports from the Sheriff’s department. These are standardized statistical methods used throughout the country by Law Enforcement to measure regional crime trends.

I do acknowledge that non-professionals often use illegitimate “statistical” techniques to promote their agenda, but certainly your not suggesting this is the case with the Part 1 Crime Reports from the Sheriff’s department?

David:
Gregs father is not running for Sheriff Greg is.
Cut the crap with this campaign of innuendo, lies and half truths. You are a hack for the Pink Lobby. Which means there are 12 people who give a rats rear end about your agenda. Go back to blaming Eugene Delgaudio for all of the worlds ills. Even that nonsense is more creditable that your latest rants.

David, Don:
Glad to see you have come over to a site that actually encourages a free exchange of ideas. Loudoun Farce's thought police got a bit carried away. Stay as long as you want , you can return to the echo chamber later.

David;
Martin Luther King is turning over in his grave. You are not a civil rights activist. You are a leftist hack for the Homosexual lobby who views the world through pink colored lenses.

After reading about half of this argument, I just have a few things to say:

There are very few "gated communities" in western Loudoun. Perhaps it is a matter of relativity but the elitist gated communities I have seen are in eastern Loudoun albeit west of Joe.

The term "western elitist" is a misnomer propogated by the CPR crowd to divide this county (and therefore conquer). For Laura to say "I am not a Western Loudoun elite" just adds credibility to the concept. Joe, your loose use of the label also enables those who would use it (apparently in another context) to further divide the county to their (profitable) ends.

More on topic - I read Joe's post and see no reason it should be edited from any blog or bulletin board. IT is a legitimate criticism (whether you agree with his conclusions or not) and personally I like the focus on the employers rather than the (sic) evil hispanics.

Joe, more information about the progress of your efforts to that end with the BOS, please.

Eric, attend the next BOS meeting or watch on TV. This is when they supposedly will be voting on several initiatives floated at last week's committee of the whole meeting. The ball is in their court now.

They will have had a month to digest Help Save Loudoun's "Honest Business" proposal (you can read it at the Web site) and it is time for them to do something.

Greg A, thanks. That anonymous comment was the only thing I could find on our site that actually referred to you. What made me question whether that's what you were talking about is that you seemed to be addressing Jonathan. In fact, I can't even find a comment from him. The post was about the first anti-gay ad placed by your father, back in June, before we had met either of you. I still don't know what you are reading as anti-Semitic. That's pretty ironic, actually - ask your father.

Certainly at the time, following the convention, the article in the Observer that described the heated exchange between your father and Simpson's family, and in the wake of that ad, people had a lot of questions. In fact, they still do, as evidenced just recently here. I am still hearing the same rumors about your tattoo, and in public and in private I have corrected those specific misconceptions.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect bloggers to go back to old posts and "correct" something that an anonymous commenter said. If it was something that I or another blog author had posted *as factual information*, it would obviously be different.

How about this: If you send me a digital photo of your tattoo and your explanation of what it means - whatever you want to say - I will be happy to publish it. Then there will be something on the record to point to in response to some of this wild speculation.

Besides addressing the rumors, I do think that the voters are entitled to an explanation.

If you really want to find out what western Loudoun elitist means, Laura should start campaigning for affordable housing in Purcellville, Hamilton, Aldie, Middleburg, and other points west. In many blogs her views on affordable housing are well known, so this would seem a natural.

The NIMBY crowd in Purcellville is currently fighting construction of a school. I am sure they would absolutely love this proposal..

Not gonna happen, why ? Because the west wants to keep it localized to areas east of 15. Those in the west seem ok with illegal migrant labor cutting their grass, harvesting their crops, picking their grapes, currying and cleaning up after their horses, but absolutely against having them as neighbors.

Prove me wrong Laura, fire up this campaign..

There are two types of gated communities, those with a physical gate, and those with virtual gates based upon caste. Yes, we do have many of these in western Loudoun.

So, if I were to start a rumor on a blog that Simpson or George has a tattoo of Che Guivera on his ass, you would ask for a digital photo ?

For once, I agree with Dan. The NIMBYs are out here (but may not be who you think.)

Actually, I advocate that new development, like the "town center" currently planned for Lovettsville, include a wide variety of housing stock including apartments over the commercial shops (like an actual town would have). But the single family home snobs would never allow "that kind of people" (actual quote from a public hearing) to invade their A-3 suburban wonderland. They don't want variety. They don't even want townhouses.

Be careful of what you attribute to others.

David, Looks like you would be a willing partner to Laura in advocacy of affordable housing in western Loudoun. Why don't the two of you bring this up at the next public BOS hearing ? I am sure the western elitists will quickly introduce themselves to you..

Wise advise for EqualityLoudoun..

First of all, Dan, I didn't start the rumor about Greg's tattoo, which is just one of several making the rounds.

I know what it is because he showed it to me. Nevertheless, the rumors continue to circulate. I am offering to publish whatever statement he wishes to make about his tattoo and verify that it is, in fact, the one I saw. What more could I offer to do to be fair? Please tell me.

Didn't I just say that I advocate affordable housing in Western Loudoun?

Do you? Would you be willing to work for such common sense policy all over the county? That would be more productive in terms of alleviating overcrowding compared to what you are currently doing, I think.

David, we may actually be on the verge of finding some common ground. If you will track with me on the following I will see it as a major step forward in the debate.

Yes, we need to advocate for affordable housing in our county - in all areas of the county. The cost should be partially (or largely) subsidized by the businesses who are profiting from the labor.

Additionally, the businesses should be forced to find their labor via legal means, which may mean recruiting from disadvantaged parts of the state and the country, and via the various legal programs for sponsoring migrant or immigrant workers.

These are important, long term initiatives.

But the house across the street or next door which houses migrant workers is a short-term issue. I submit if it was next door to you, you would see it the same way.

You would not want to wait till 2010 when the affordable housing units become available, because during the next three years you might want your kids or grandkids to be able to go outside. You would want that problem fixed now.

I am going to cut you some slack and not make my point with a derogatory statement about your relative familiarity with what is happening here in the East, ok? I won't translate what you call "common sense" into what we would call it.

So with this consideration in mind, that the problem viewed from next door is a lot different than the problem viewed from 15 miles away, would you care to rethink your verdict on what we "are currently doing?"

David, For an affordable cross county housing advocate, well, yes, the silence on this issue has been deafening..

Yes, I am for affordable housing distributed in Loudoun. Unfortunately "Smart Growth" over the last several years, in practice meant that east of 15, anything goes. This would seem to indicate poor or no support for cross county affordable housing. The folks you need to assuage are those in your own back yard, aka western elitists, my suggestion was that you take it up with them, not me. I am definitely not in favor of continued density packing in the east. Yes, I too love the rural flavor of the west, but not at the cost of an asphalt jungle in the east.

Overcrowding is just one symptom of illegal migration. Do I wish to push this to other parts of Loudoun, no, I do not. Doing so would not lessen the Loudoun tax burden. Doing so would not lessen the illegality of what is going on with corrupt hiring practices.

Let me turn around and ask you a question, as it traditionally has been the Democrats lining up against illegal business practices, do you plan to be part of this solution, or are you content with the don't ask don't tell status quo ?

David;
You are playing a game here. You know the deal with the tattoo. yet your solution is to suggest photos to prove what you already know to be crap.
A tactic which further keeps the story alive by providing yet another twist.
How about this , you and the rest of the leftist hacks simply denouce the story as BS.
End of story.

I don't want to be unfair to you, Joe. I do think we have common ground here.

I've never said that there are no problems in Sterling. I've said that I think there is an enforcement problem. Illegal boarding houses do need to be shut down, but in a way that doesn't result in legal residents being unreasonably harassed. Both things are a problem.

There is also a world of difference between requiring employers to follow the law (which I can support) and denying funding to any charitable organization that provides services without regard to residency status (which I cannot support, for numerous, very good reasons). Your group seems to be demanding both of those things, and it is the latter to which I refer as being counterproductive.

The personal attacks by some of your buddies on myself and others isn't helping, either.

Greg Stone,

Addressing me in this manner is not helping your case.

There is simply more to the story than this or that specific rumor being "BS." That would be the case, were there no tattoo at all - but there is one, and it is not a simple matter to explain what it means. As some of you folks have suggested on the LTM site, it may mean different things to different people.

As I've already indicated, I do correct specific manifestations of the rumors when I hear them. That doesn't seem to be good enough. Hence the offer. I haven't heard a response from Greg A. yet. Can't you allow him to speak for himself?

David/Dan,

What about A-3 zoning makes for "affordable housing"? The battles between what you call NIMBYs in the west and the developers have been over whether to downzone the rural west below A-3 or not. It has had nothing to do with "affordable housing".

I think you would find very few residents who would be opposed to truly affordable housing (especially in areas where infrastructure is in place to support it). I would suggest you examine the population increases in Purcellville, Leesburg, Lovettsville, and Round Hill over the past say ten years before you start castigating others as elitists. The towns of western Loudoun have absorbed their fair share of the growth and continue to do so. That does not mean that the west should be developed on the Ashburn model.

Personal attacks are coming on all sides of this debate. Some have been equated to Hitler, and for those like myself being of German descent, I don't think some realize how hurtful a comment like that is.

There is common ground on all issues, if we pursue it. The choice is ours, and at the end of the day the question is always will we choose wisely..

Eric,

Absolutely nothing. That is exactly what I mean. The notion that A-3 single family homes constitute anything within the universe of "affordable housing" is a joke, and turning the still rural areas into Ashburn is exactly the wrong answer to every problem we are discussing. I'm talking about real affordable housing.

David,

"in a way that doesn't result in legal residents being unreasonably harassed. "

I rally around this point as well, as would many on both sides of this debate. I am as passionate about preventing unreasonable harassment as I am about illegal hiring practices.

Sorry, I don't have time to check these sites through out the day.

I'll make it easy. I'm a God and Country man. I think of it more as a "logo" for my life. Israeli flag, the Cross, American flag, Ephesians 6:13 and "Just Stand". I also like several other verses Genesis 12:3 and James 4:14. Come to the debate on Tuesday, you can always ask further questions if this is an issue important to you as to who you will vote for on Nov 6th. Hopefully, all of our candidates place their faith and patriotism above the importance of getting elected. I know that I do.

Don,
I have so much information on criminal misconduct within the Sheriff's office that I give little value to anything coming from Mr Simpson. I don't know if you had a chance to read the delegate pledge signed by Mr Simpson. That's called lying. If someone has shown the public they will lie and not keep their word am I supposed to accept everything they say as fact afterwards? Sorry, no credibility or integrity now. I could show you his letter he sent to the delegates about the "watch words of his administration are honesty and integrity". Funny, I haven't heard him use those words since going back on his word.

David:

Addressing you in what manner ?

It is not in your best intrest for this issue to go away. That is why you prop it up for as long as you can.

There is no here here. There never was and there never will be.

Unless one ( not David mind you ) is a political hack trying to make hay for the opposition, regardless of the truth.

Greg S:

I have not once brought up the topic of the tattoo - I have only responded when others have brought it up. On this particular thread, I direct your attention to the fact that *Greg Ahlemann brought it up himself.* (9/23, 11:17 pm)

Given this, your meme that it is somehow in my "best interest" to discuss it, or that such discussion is in some sense "hay for the opposition" is unconvincing.

I doubt very much that many people would have a problem with "a God and Country man." That description fits all three candidates equally well. I think we're fine with a Sheriff who is patriotic and a person of faith. There's a big leap from that to what is being termed religious extremism, however (it's not my term, Greg S, so save yourself some keystrokes).

People do take issue with that, and, I think, understandably wonder about the significance of those three symbols in combination; the cross, the American flag, and the Israeli flag. After all, our nation is a nation of many faiths. I wonder how Muslims or Sikhs would see it. I am also still curious about the anti-Semitism remark.

These are reasonable questions, and they are only inflamed by the perception that something is being hidden - a perception that you, Greg S, are feeding.

I have been waiting for the subject of the mysterious tattoo to be broached. Of course, I didn't dare mention it myself, lest Joe ban me from his blog but I did learn about it with a quick Google search as soon as Joe tried to hush it up by throwing that other person off the blog. And I won't discuss Joe's secret tattoo unless someone else brings it up first.

Zimzo, you are out of the loop, uncharacteristically. No one got banned for mentioning the tattoo, which Greg showed to the Weintraub's during a parade this summer and which is no secret.

Prince "Not Ken Reid" got deleted and banned for a pretty serious libel. You should know me better than that.

Mr. Budzinski,
I will apologize for not being more tactful in moderating your comment. Normally, I would have first given you a warning about our policy, and I should have assured you that your views and comments are welcome.
However, in the context I was rushing from one thing to another, and what stood out to me was that that a respected community leader and a charming lady was getting pummeled by three men, and I felt it was necessary to moderate the thread.

My mistake. I stand corrected. I guess I just got carried away by the intrigue and romance of it all.

(See Jacob and Jack, it's not so hard to admit when you are wrong.)

David:
There is no there there.
Your done. Move on.

Don :
What is that they say, if you can't stand the heat stay out the kitchen.

If I were Laura, I might take offense to the fact that you felt she needed to be rescued.

What is more disturbing that you felt the need to delete portions of a debate simply because one side was as you called it, getting pummeled. Another way to look at it might be she was getting her hat handed to her in the marketplace of ideas and needed a lifeline.

Whatever the motivation for the rescue it is still distubing that you felt the need to play intellectual referee.

Perhaps, zimzo, I've just never seen you do it before. Are you feeling OK?

Don, Laura Valle keeps speaking out on issues she really is not informed about, and at the same time she keeps bringing the Help Save Loudoun people into her discussion.

Honestly, no one wants to pummel her, but if she is going to continue to make these inaccurate statements that she's been making since July 23, we are going to call her on them every single time.

Laura has this habit of denigrating the concerns of many of Loudoun's citizens, and then retreating to a position of besieged mock horror when the citizens dare to talk back. David Weintraub is acting as a facilitator in all this.

Problem is, some of us do not play that.

Wrong is wrong, regardless of the word games. If someone states something that is a lie, I am going to continue to point out the lie regardless of how they try to spin it afterwards.

It astounds me that Laura continues to come out here and lead with her chin in the local press and Web sites, painting the citizens of Sterling as basically morons while planning to turn around and ask these same citizens for $26,000 in taxpayer support in a few months.

If this is what she wants to do with her 501(c)3, fine - but please don't ask me to pay for it.

Perhaps if you'd been following the discussion since July you'd have seen that our jumping on her case at your Web site was not really uncalled for at all.

"David:
There is no there there.
Your done. Move on."

Now this is intriguing. Do you fancy yourself one who gives orders, Greg Stone? Would you, perhaps, like to be Sheriff yourself?

Sorry, but this is a democracy, and voters need to ask questions in order to be informed. This process will continue apace. Go make scary faces at someone else.

The commenter on our blog did suggest that the tattoo is "anti-Muslim," and having seen it, I have to wonder about associations with certain political groups that use the same logo.

Again, I am trying very hard to be fair to Mr. Ahlemann. I don't know that he does or does not subscribe to these views just because he has a tattoo.

Voters of all faiths have the right to know that they will be treated equally by law enforcement. That sure sounds like a "there" to me.

The fact that you want so badly for these questions not to be asked, Greg Stone, suggests to me that they are very good questions.

David,

What exactly are you after? Is there really any valid concern on your part for Greg Ahlemann's personal life and how it equates to his candidacy? Foolish people follow rumors and you really can't get away from a rumor (satisfying it) after it has started. The best thing to do is leave it alone. Those without integrity start the rumors.

Will a tattoo make or break a candidate? I guess if you are of the Democratic ideology it would. I would think you would like to know more what a person believes. You can dog this forever and I don't think you will ever be satisfied until you have perceived to unearth the true "dirt". Please continue on your follie to prove me correct.

There is no rumor, at least not to me. He showed it to me, as has been repeatedly stated.

Yes, what matters is "what a person believes," specifically about the civil rights, equality and ultimate humanity of people who are of other faiths, or no faith. That is the information that I am "after," and it is a very reasonable question.

Do you not agree?

Then that is something that you will not get from a "tattoo". If you want to know those things, ask the person. If you have seen the tattoo than you should know what it means. The rumor of what its perceived meaning is is what is being persued here and that appears to be what YOU are doing. It's simple. If you already have the answer, move on. If you don't, ask Greg what he believes in. He will tell you how he feels about people. If I thought he was a bigot or racist, I would have reservations about voting for him. I don't have those reservations.

That is why I extended the invitation to discuss it on our blog, A.

I'm asking for complete transparency to the voters who have questions about this, which is something that seems threatening to certain of Greg's supporters. That's not his fault, but it's reflecting badly on him.

Rumors only reflect badly on the gullible and those that persue them. Again, you are making issue with a tattoo.

David, I fly the Stars and Bars (First National, second version of the flag of the Confederacy). If you saw that, would you start a rumor that I was pro-slave/anti-Negro? If you talked to me and I told you that I am just a good ol' Southern boy, would you then invite me to explain the flag flying on you site? If I have explained to you what it stands for, the issue is dead. If you want to ask me how I feel about people of race,creed or religion then I would tell you. What you are doing is apples and organges. There is no hidden "klan" tendencies, anti-American beliefs or racial bigotry.

You are creating/helping to further the "reflecting badly on him" part which appears to be an underhanded tact to besmurch Greg. That is a shame and bodes poorly in your favor.

Silly David, obsessed with "rumors" that came to me from feretti's camp, when this respectable political blog is much more preoccupied with Hilary Clinton's boobs. Where is the quality control? Where are the censors?

Ah, prince, aka "not Ken," aka George Chell, you rear your ugly head. Thanks for confirming in writing what we already knew and for raising the level of discourse once again.

QC will be by soon, I hope.

No david it is not a democracy it is a Representative Republic.

I might question your overall ability to comprehend. However, I do know even you are not dumb enough to believe this position you have staked out. Those having just flunked out of clown college are laughing at you. Give it a rest will ya.

You know and I know there is no here here.

Constitutional Republic.
Nice to meet you this evening, Mr. Stone.
:tips hat: